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Other cool things for IPv6?
![[gb]](/s/countries/gb.gif) Shadow Hawkins on Saturday, 20 October 2007 22:37:50
What other cool and unique things could people provide to encourage IPv6 adoption? I'm sure quite a few people using SixXS have access to dedicated servers with spare bandwidth which could be used for IPv6 only services.
The usenet access from xs4all is a nice little freebie, but what others could the community provide?
Other cool things for IPv6?
![[us]](/s/countries/us.gif) Shadow Hawkins on Friday, 18 July 2008 08:56:43
Think peer-to-peer, and not necessarily popular file sharing.
A big pain for gamers is busting through NAT firewalls. IPv6 eliminates that since all IPv6 hosts are world-routable. And perhaps you can even have a distributed game server or game world.
Who needs server-based instant messaging? If everyone's PC is reachable you can manage a distributed directory, friends lists without MySpace/Facebook/LiveJournal, etc..
Think web apps like Google mashups. Now anyone's home PC can serve data for someone else to mash up. Maybe individuals in different locales are tracking local weather, butterfly migration, trendy fads, whatever. That info can be dynamically shared and rearranged for who knows what purposes?
Basically the internet goes back to what it was originally meant to be: every computer can talk to every computer. No need to have central application servers and monolithic databases, and they've even figured out how to have distributed directories.
What is needed are applications that benefit from each peer having global connectivity. (And also securely designed so they don't get a bad image opening doors to hackers.)
Come to think of it, a good personal DMZ could become a killer feature in the IPv6-enabled world. I'm thinking partitioned environments (like unix's chroot, Virtuozzo/OpenVZ orVserver) for each service that requires no knowledge from the end user other than how to run setup to add the latest fad distributed service to it. If people perceive global connectivity as a security threat then people and companies will emulate the current NAT'ed world by hiding behind private address scopes and/or overbearing firewalls.
Other cool things for IPv6?
![[si]](/s/countries/si.gif) Shadow Hawkins on Monday, 21 July 2008 10:33:43
Unless there is a simple (read "fully automated") way to configure home routers for IPv6, this will not happen.
They (ISP's, router manufacturers) may resort to NAT (it works, it requires no setup, it already exists/is implemented, it works).
Other cool things for IPv6?
![[ca]](/s/countries/ca.gif) Shadow Hawkins on Monday, 21 July 2008 14:35:36
NAT is not a supported feature in IPv6 and any ISP which decides to go with this this is surely to be blasted. When you consider that an IPv6 subnet itself has more addresses than the whole IPv4 address range, why would you even bother?
Other cool things for IPv6?
Because of money reasons. They nowadays charge like 20EUR/month for a static IP address. If they provide a full /48 to their enduser per default they can't do this anymore. Also there will not be a way to distinguish between a 'commercial/business internet link' and a 'home internet link'. The major distinction at the moment is contention ratio and static IP addresses. They want you to cough.
Fortunately because of Tunnel Brokers, there is already an established market of users who will require a /48 or simply won't go there, or just use the Tunnel Broker which is free and does give them that.
Another thing is that they specify to the RIR they got their address space from that they where going to have x numbers of users in that block and actually make delegations from it. If they don't, they are up for nice review from the RIR. As an end-user one could thus ask the RIR to start that process. Which unfortunately won't have much effect though, as retracting the IP addresses is a bit impossible. Thus community pressure is the only way to go. If still a lot of people use their services the ISP really can't care about it.
Om;y time will tell if they are going to or not. For the next years though I don't expect to see a large uptake in IPv6-capable-per-default enduser ISP's anyway.
Other cool things for IPv6?
Shadow Hawkins on Monday, 21 July 2008 16:02:43
So they are willing to remove the advantages of IPv6 for money? Surely changing their business model would be of more benefit to themselves and everyone else? Ah, for an ideal world :-/ Should we be calling out ISPs who try to NAT IPv6?
Would an ISP even need to hand out a /48? What I mean is would they be potentially be able to allocate a smaller block of addresses to home users?
Other cool things for IPv6?
Shadow Hawkins on Friday, 25 July 2008 15:10:50
A single subnet (/64 block) should cover the needs of 99,99% of home users.
(oh, plus one for the "public" address)
Other cool things for IPv6?
A lot of people already have a separate wired and wireless network; and I know quite some people doing multicast at home and doing that over a separate 1Gbit network to avoid clashes with their file-transfers, thus making sure that their movies/music etc is played perfectly fine throughout their house.
Also don't limit your ideas of a network to what is today, think, or more, dream about what else is possible.
A /48 fits 99.99% of all the endsites; a /56 most likely 99.99% of all home users. But a /64 for sure is not enough.
Other cool things for IPv6?
They are required by RIR rules to:
- give 1 IPv6 address when there is for sure only one IP address required
- a /64 for a single link, and there is for sure nothing else
- a /48 (or /56 in ARIN land) when there is a need for more than one subnet.
Per those rules the ISP's get their allocations. As such, when they are going to give out only 1 IP address, they are basically stating they got their allocation under false pretenses. In the US of A, that would mean that quite a few people know where to find the courtrooms ;)
But I'll first have to see that it will really work out like this.
Other cool things for IPv6?
Shadow Hawkins on Monday, 04 August 2008 18:56:35
Wow, an old thread resurrected from 9 months ago! ;)
The original question I was asking is more about what could people who have IPv6 connectivity to servers with spare bandwidth offer to people to encourage IPv6 adoption? The free usenet access has encouraged a few people I know to test out IPv6, but what else could I (or anyone else) offer with my free bandwidth over IPv6? I know The Great IPv6 Experiment is going to do free porn over IPv6, but I'd like to offer something tempting and legal (and not porn!).
If more techie people would realise that there are free resources over IPv6 then it might encourage more adoption, instead of just being a very small minority of users.
Other cool things for IPv6?
Shadow Hawkins on Tuesday, 05 August 2008 11:53:56
One idea I had was to use multicast to have a radio channel, as it seems multicast finaly works.
But I also read here that it does not really work that well, so ...
If it were working, one could have a radio "broadcast" for the (almost) entire world (well, the IPv6 parts of it) over the simplest connection (even ISDN would be enough).
Other cool things for IPv6?
Shadow Hawkins on Tuesday, 05 August 2008 14:18:25
Trying to work out what will attract the crowds is a tough one. One approach would simply to have an IPv4 web site with a special area only accessible via IPv6. Of course the site would have to advertise this.
It would be nice if we could convince some of the Linux community web sites to adopt IPv6. If people knew some of their favourite sites were accessible via IPv6 it would help. Maybe what we need to do is work with some of the sites to make it happen.
I had a look at slashdot.org, but from what I can tell they won't go IPv6 until Slashcode goes IPv6 and Slashcode won't go IPv6 until some of the Perl network libraries support IPv6. Taking this into account, I think we should push for the development of IPv6 in these libraries, whether it is by contributing development or noise, though I would favour the former. One of the libraries that needs work is libwww:
http://search.cpan.org/dist/libwww-perl/
There is an open ticket:
http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=29468
Another popular language that needs to have its IPv6 support validate is php, since this is what is used by mediawiki, which is the engine that powers wikipedia. In fact getting wikipedia on the IPv6 bandwagon would also be good.
Other cool things for IPv6?
Forget about Slashdot, they don't care about technology, they are nerds without nerds and only really care about ad-revenues it seems. They know for a long long time already that IPv6 is there, that they can use it, we even offered them to deploy it, but they can't care less. IPv6Gate allows you to fully use it though. Only change needed.
Both PHP5 (use the right function calls) and Perl (use Socket6 library, since 2003) support IPv6. The applications need to be upgraded for this for it to work. Wikimedia (the wiki that is used on Wikipedia) supports IPv6 too, it is also used as the software for the SixXS Wiki.
Note also that Apache also supports it for years and that generally the only change needed in websites to support IPv6 is in their logging, thus the way they handle the REMOTE_ADDR environment variable. The biggest catch to support thus is connectivity and management and then of course, how many clients can't reach your sites any more, see the below Wikipedia link for results.
Wikipedia is already partially IPv6 enabled, see Wikimedia IPv6 Deployment Page and Wikimedia AAAA record testing.
Also note:
$ host -t any static.wikipedia.org
static.wikipedia.org is an alias for hume.wikimedia.org.
$ host -t any hume.wikimedia.org.
hume.wikimedia.org has address 208.80.152.190
hume.wikimedia.org has IPv6 address 2620:0:860:2:21d:9ff:fe33:f235
But note that even though that might help getting people who already have IPv6 to use those sites, as they will suddenly just connect over IPv6. This doesn't generate any new IPv6 users, as the normal internet-user can't care less if it comes in over IPv4 or IPv6.
There is nothing special about "yet another website doing IPv6", now a new "P2P" tool would be very interesting, or a game using IPv6 for mass-communication with other players. This is also why Teredo exists: it is easier to make an application IPv6 aware (or uPNP), than have every application support all the kind of NATs around the world so that clients can directly communicate with each other.
Other cool things for IPv6?
Shadow Hawkins on Tuesday, 05 August 2008 19:04:44
Multicast could really boost p2p. (usually the problem there is upload)
Can you tell that I like multicast ? ;-)
Other cool things for IPv6?
Shadow Hawkins on Tuesday, 05 August 2008 19:48:38
Well, they could have a notice on the front page indicating that they support IPv6? Think of it as discreet evangelism of the technology.
Are there any good IPv6 ready logos that sites can use that look good, other than the ones at http://www.ipv6ready.org/frames.html which quite honestly look more the result of committee than a designer.
As for P2P isn't there already IPv6 support with BitTorrent?
As for games, other than open source version of Quake 3 I am not aware of many that support it out of the box. Could we convince some key games developers, such as 'id software', to include it in the next public released game?
Libsdl has a network library add-on, but that is still not IPv6 compliant. What about the status of other games libraries, such as Direct-X?
Other software include instant messengers. XMPP already support IPv6, but I don't think there are any public Jabber servers that make use of it. For the propriety protocols, I don't think there is much we can do there.
Other cool things for IPv6?
Are there any good IPv6 ready logos that sites can use that
The use of the "IPv6 Ready Logos" require that you actually are the company/product that passed the test. You can't just use those logos.
As for P2P isn't there already IPv6 support with BitTorrent?
Azureus does it and a lot of others, see IPv6 BitTorrent Tracker
Could we convince some key games developers, such as 'id software', to include it in the next public released game?
id software (I talked to John Carmack about it) knows about IPv6 but as their client base doesn't have it, why would they care about it?
As for Open Source games: supply patches.
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on Monday, 21 July 2008 14:52:33
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